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The God Delusion

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The God Delusion

Post by Varun on Sun 6 Jan 2008 - 10:30

First topic message reminder :

When I was a little kid mom used to tell me: "It's already 18:00, go and do your prayer. You need to pray to get peace and prosperity in your life..."

However, while picking up my days I started having a different approach at this thing which is called religion. What is the meaning of religion? Does God exist? 24 years of age right now and I've been an atheist for more than half of my life. The God Delusion is a book by British biologist Richard Dawkins, holder of the Charles Simonyi Chair for the Public Understanding of Science at the University of Oxford.

In his book, Dawkins contends that a supernatural creator almost certainly does not exist and that belief in God qualifies as a delusion, which he defines as a persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence. He is sympathetic to Robert Pirsig's observation that when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity and when many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion.

I should admit that I have not got the opportunity to go through his book but I've been really inspired by his beliefs and ideas when I watched him on BBC World some days ago. I come from a religious family as are an estimated 86% of the world's population. So, in this regard I belong to the minority group referred as non-religious. Still, I am firm on my beliefs and I would like to hear about your perceptions and beliefs in God and religion.


Last edited by Varun on Mon 4 Jan 2010 - 19:45; edited 6 times in total (Reason for editing : Update)

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Prithvi on Fri 30 May 2008 - 17:36

sa wai!!

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Guest on Tue 10 Jun 2008 - 0:34

I think that even if god did not exist, it would be neccesary to invent it... Smile

n yea cant imagine chitra p fime mass... plito mo imagine li dan la jungle avec les singes!! lol!

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Varun on Mon 16 Jun 2008 - 23:09

Deesha wrote:I think that even if god did not exist, it would be neccesary to invent it... Smile
Why?

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Guest on Sat 21 Jun 2008 - 10:00

rrr...mwasi mo envi kner why? saem mne met sa:P looooooool

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Shanu on Sat 21 Jun 2008 - 16:13

deesha pa p gagne compren toi aster, toem to dire li neccesary invent god mais kan demande toi kifer, to nepli koner ki pou dire.. Enfin.. By the way to theist toi deesha??


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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Guest on Mon 23 Jun 2008 - 15:00

ban loss..mo ti kner reponse la mai mo tienvi zot zot dire mwa koz mo ti fek fer n essay lor la dan lesson...mai mne fini ggn mo papier bck ek mo kv dire imP truc cki mne write==>

we r creatures n we believe dat some1 has created us so even if we ddnt believe in god, we r always in a trouble with the idea that ther cud b somebody who invented us!! believing in god, we can take off d responsibility of creating from our shoulders. we just acpt that god exist not to make the matter serious...oterwise we wud hv been intrigued wid d matter n doubted the existence of god.

we r civilised peeps and whether ppl hv gne in tribes and communities, they hv discovered that other ppl frm other tribes n societies r worshipping a superior power, something which is omni-present, which controls power, something that just came out of the void. They dd nt hv connection wid other societies n yet they worship something.

Even scientists believe in god when they come to a point where they cannot go any further. They believe that there could be interference of a supernatural power.

No god implies no fear of god...shame, moral boundaries , no fear of hurting others, no moral, ethical values in society. The inventing and worshipping god shapens our conscience. Ther is a constant watch out of evils...the more we pray, the more there is a purgation of evils so that we are encouraged to do good all the time. The absence of religion and moral cud hv led d human beings astray. Justice not done on earth, it will be done above. The belief that there is a divine justice wud help human beings frm getting involved in actions which wud hurt d feelings of others.

By believing in god, man rejects d material n adopt d spiritual. This is wat makes ppl conscious, more sensitive towards their acts. Be good and do good- clean sheet in case god exists- u'r judge in front of him. we always gain in thinking that god is goodness, ethics n morality.

Man needs n ideal to strive forward, he needs to feel wat his purpose on earth is. To attain perfection. if god has been invented, we must admit that by inventing god we invent perfection! God is d representation of the ideal perfection. Take d rite path towards perferction for d good of every1.
Not inventing him simply represents the absence of reference for human beings. God is nt only perfection bt he is a reassuring presence. The concept of paradise n heaven doing so much good on earth..wher would we go in our afterlife?? we need to believe that we must do good to attain salvation n go to heaven..God provides an explanation of d unseen. Man is incapable of creating life...n science has failed to grasp d essence of life and god appears to fill d gap. If we had nt invented it then who wud hv filled d gap. Man cannot make stone, air or sun. Everything dat we cannot do, somebody else must hv done it.

Ppl has more fear and respect for the unknown. Ppl have d fear of god if they think of doing something wrng...
However inventing god...has caused a lot of trouble in da world...The war of religions! In da past, we had many crusades where christians n muslims were fighting...many ppl were killed...if we had nt invented god thes probs wud nt hv arised...But who knows, mayB ther wud b other problems more serious than that trust upon us!!

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Abhishek on Mon 23 Jun 2008 - 19:22

Inventing GOD!!!!!!.
Wow...
who invented that??
may i knw??

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Kavi on Mon 23 Jun 2008 - 19:59

lol!

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Varun on Fri 4 Jul 2008 - 13:02

Deesha wrote:ban loss..mo ti kner reponse la mai mo tienvi zot zot dire mwa koz mo ti fek fer n essay lor la dan lesson...mai mne fini ggn mo papier bck ek mo kv dire imP truc cki mne write==>

we r creatures n we believe dat some1 has created us so even if we ddnt believe in god, we r always in a trouble with the idea that ther cud b somebody who invented us!! believing in god, we can take off d responsibility of creating from our shoulders. we just acpt that god exist not to make the matter serious...oterwise we wud hv been intrigued wid d matter n doubted the existence of god.

we r civilised peeps and whether ppl hv gne in tribes and communities, they hv discovered that other ppl frm other tribes n societies r worshipping a superior power, something which is omni-present, which controls power, something that just came out of the void. They dd nt hv connection wid other societies n yet they worship something.

Even scientists believe in god when they come to a point where they cannot go any further. They believe that there could be interference of a supernatural power.

No god implies no fear of god...shame, moral boundaries , no fear of hurting others, no moral, ethical values in society. The inventing and worshipping god shapens our conscience. Ther is a constant watch out of evils...the more we pray, the more there is a purgation of evils so that we are encouraged to do good all the time. The absence of religion and moral cud hv led d human beings astray. Justice not done on earth, it will be done above. The belief that there is a divine justice wud help human beings frm getting involved in actions which wud hurt d feelings of others.

By believing in god, man rejects d material n adopt d spiritual. This is wat makes ppl conscious, more sensitive towards their acts. Be good and do good- clean sheet in case god exists- u'r judge in front of him. we always gain in thinking that god is goodness, ethics n morality.

Man needs n ideal to strive forward, he needs to feel wat his purpose on earth is. To attain perfection. if god has been invented, we must admit that by inventing god we invent perfection! God is d representation of the ideal perfection. Take d rite path towards perferction for d good of every1.
Not inventing him simply represents the absence of reference for human beings. God is nt only perfection bt he is a reassuring presence. The concept of paradise n heaven doing so much good on earth..wher would we go in our afterlife?? we need to believe that we must do good to attain salvation n go to heaven..God provides an explanation of d unseen. Man is incapable of creating life...n science has failed to grasp d essence of life and god appears to fill d gap. If we had nt invented it then who wud hv filled d gap. Man cannot make stone, air or sun. Everything dat we cannot do, somebody else must hv done it.

Ppl has more fear and respect for the unknown. Ppl have d fear of god if they think of doing something wrng...
However inventing god...has caused a lot of trouble in da world...The war of religions! In da past, we had many crusades where christians n muslims were fighting...many ppl were killed...if we had nt invented god thes probs wud nt hv arised...But who knows, mayB ther wud b other problems more serious than that trust upon us!!
My much elaborated analysis based on Deesha's points...

Varun wrote:One of the most common arguments for the existence of God is the argument from design. It states that the complexity and interdependencies of nature can only be explained, if someone intelligent (i.e. God) designed it all.

This kind of argument is what atheists call a "God of the gaps" argument. That is, God resides in the gaps of our current knowledge. When people couldn't explain lightning, it was God who made it and when that gap in our knowledge disappeared God had to retreat from it. This has been a continuing theme throughout history where God has retreated from one gap after another as the light of science has illuminated them one by one.

This argument also places God in the shrinking gaps of the very well supported theory of evolution which explains the development of the species without the need of an intelligent designer, your supreme one, God. One very common version of the argument from design is the claim that the odds of the eye being created by chance are so huge that the possibility can be discounted.

This argument however misunderstands what evolution is. Evolution isn't just randomness. It's randomness with selection and evolution doesn't create things like the eye in one go. It's nearly 150 years since Darwin explained in "The Origin of Species" how the eye might have evolved. It could for example have started with a single cell that were sensitive to light which generation after generation increased in numbers and complexity and it is important not to forget that all our skin cells are sensitive to light. When we feel the sun burning our skin it's simply an invisible light which we can just feel. Furthermore, we have today observed creatures in nature with eyes of different complexity.

Theists are bound to believe that everything has a cause and from this assumption it is argued that the universe must have had a cause and that this cause is God. However, if everything has a cause then God must also have a cause and that cause must have a cause and so on infinitely. This is a conclusion that I think isn't palatable for any theist. If the theist, to counter this, claims that God is uncaused then he has contradicted the assumption on which the argument is based and has therefore invalidated it.

It is also often argued that since so many people today and throughout history have had religious experiences there must be surely something about it. To answer this one should consider that earlier in human history more or less everyone experienced the Earth as being flat. Today science can explain why they saw it this way, even though it isn't true. Similarly scientists today are starting to explain why people have religious experiences and even trigger them without involving God. So, when someone is trying to make a case for the existence of God based on the many religious experiences they could make an equally compelling/uncompelling argument that the Earth is flat.

It should be considered that religious experiences are dependent on the religion of the person having the experience which indicates that it's only a subjective experience generated by the person's own brain. This aspect will also often make the experiences mutually contradictory which in turn shows that they can't all be true and even if we accept them then it will be very hard to argue why we shouldn't also accept the very similar experiences of alien abductions, succubus visits, etc...
Your absurd question (or remark)...

Abhishek wrote:Inventing GOD!!!!!!.
Wow...
who invented that??
may i knw??
If you don't have an answer why do you laugh at those who have the reason?

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Abhishek on Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 8:49

To banne long lectures pa pu faire mwa changer!!!!
Wahahahahaha.
To trop previsible....
Deesha....si to pa ti ene tifi ....jamais varun ti pu pren to par..
BEWARE.

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Guest on Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 14:55

btw to pane repon varun so kestion la abhi!!

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Abhishek on Sun 6 Jul 2008 - 17:47

You know children are growing up when they start asking questions that have answers.

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Prithvi on Wed 23 Jul 2008 - 15:32

Abhishek si to ti pu lire bien seki varun ine ekrire to pa ti pu dir sa!!
Mo sire ki to pane lire bien!!
Laughing

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Guest on Mon 15 Dec 2008 - 0:10

Je c pa si dieu existe ou non. Mai g besoin 2 savoir kil y a kelkun 2 plu puissant ke moi et je m'accroche a ce fait. Ma soeur m'a dit une foi ke les gens auparavant n'ariV pa a comprendre les trucs ki se paC dan la nature..comme si le climat tou sa...il y aV bocou de choses ke les humains ne pouV truV de raisons pour expliquE ces trucs alor ils se sont di ke peut etre il y a kelkun plu puissant keux, c pour sa il croyait ke dieu existe..enfin c juste kelke chose ke ma soeur m'a raconT.

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Varun on Mon 15 Dec 2008 - 7:16

That's what I've already reiterated before. But, why do you need someone who is above human power? Does this mean that you don't have enough faith in yourself to blindly accept a delusion?

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Guest on Mon 15 Dec 2008 - 7:25

Essaie pa de me fer chanG cette vision ke g de dieu. g besoin de kelkun plu puissant ke moi pour m'accrochE a et sans sa je serai comme une follette en liberT...faisant de conneries tou les jours.

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Varun on Mon 15 Dec 2008 - 7:51

I'm not trying to change your mindset at all, rest assured. Wink

My curiosity is only about how far does your mind perceive things and in this case, it's about religion/God. I still can't figure out how can you idolize a non-proven existence (God) and why can't you give this place to your parents or someone who really amazes you and brings out the best of yourself?

Also, tell me, did you read this whole topic? Suspect


Last edited by Varun on Mon 15 Dec 2008 - 23:53; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Guest on Mon 15 Dec 2008 - 8:02

si j'aV le temps j'aurai lu...mai fouff...il y a bocou a lire...je V pa lire tou sa car mem.

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Varun on Mon 15 Dec 2008 - 8:06

This should be the first thing to do when you intend to post a reply in a particular topic and there have already been lots of ideas that have been brought forward and debated, which I think could have enlightened your mind prior to continuing this discussion. Please, do it. Wink

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Guest on Mon 15 Dec 2008 - 8:20

tu c..c bien clair dan ma tete kes ke dieu represente pour moi...alor mem si je lis tou ces posts...sa ne changera rien.

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Varun on Mon 15 Dec 2008 - 18:32

That's what I call a typical theist's assumption. What a Face

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Guest on Mon 15 Dec 2008 - 19:07

tu peu penC ce ke tu veu mai je me contente du fait ke g cette croyance pour dieu.

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Guest on Mon 15 Dec 2008 - 23:35

donc to penC ki god li la pu empeche twa fer ban moV zafer??? si to p ale fer kikchoz moV to pu dire: "ayo si mo fer sa bondier pu pini mwa" ???? god pa exisT vremem alor...tne cree li zis pu ki to pa fer ban moV truc...???

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Varun on Tue 16 Dec 2008 - 1:49

Vhem YC has already turned a deaf ear on this debate as have lots of other theists, Deesha. Why do you want her to repeat the typical theist's assumptions? Razz

It's the same story everytime... No proofs, no solid statements, no logic and moreover, they don't even want to bother reading the arguments brought forward. They are simply happy with their blind beliefs or better, religion/God is best kept as a taboo for them.

Talking about the 21st century? lol!

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Jeet on Fri 18 Dec 2009 - 12:07

Loll that's what i call a debate.
I agree with what you said Varun, that is

Varun wrote:Vhem YC has already turned a deaf ear on this debate as have lots of other theists, Deesha. Why do you want her to repeat the typical theist's assumptions? Razz

It's the same story everytime... No proofs, no solid statements, no logic and moreover, they don't even want to bother reading the arguments brought forward. They are simply happy with their blind beliefs or better, religion/God is best kept as a taboo for them.

Talking about the 21st century? lol!

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Varun on Fri 18 Dec 2009 - 19:51

Have you turned into an atheist, Jeet?

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Shanu on Fri 18 Dec 2009 - 19:54

Mo repon dan Jeet so place, lol!
Jeet pa atheist, 1 gran pujari sa!!
La derniere foi li ti vine kot moi, mo mama ti fer assizer et fer la priere, n guess wat...!!
Jeet ti bien concentrer pendant toute longue la priere..!!
correct me if i'm wrong Jeet Bhaiyo...!! Laughing

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Sneha on Fri 18 Dec 2009 - 19:56

Breaking news! I have turned into an atheist. Razz

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Shanu on Fri 18 Dec 2009 - 20:01

Snehaaaaaaaa!!! Toi osi????? Nan mo pa dakor!! To pa gagne droit!! sa bezer saaaaaaaaa..!!! Neutral

Varun pane donne moi so webcam akoz line moi souadisan tous les jours to bizin trouve li pou fer so la priere..!! b aster tone vine atheist.. hmmmmmmmm.. varun.. hehe.. webcam mo bhaiyo.. to pou kapav donner aster non?? Very Happy

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Sneha on Fri 18 Dec 2009 - 20:03

Euh non... Aster mo bisin trouv Varun toulé matins pou mo lazourné passe bien, Shanu. Atann ziska Varun ek moi marié lerla to kapav gagne li. Wink

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Shanu on Fri 18 Dec 2009 - 20:05

poor me.. snif... Crying or Very sad

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Jeet on Fri 18 Dec 2009 - 21:13

loll sa top sa.
Moi non mo pas atheist.
I agree with what Shanu said about the prayer at his place

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Sneha on Fri 18 Dec 2009 - 21:22

I don't understand; you approved Varun's statement about the no proof, no logic thing on god and you agree with Shanu when he says you deeply believe in god. How is that possible? You can't be in two boats at a time, Zit. Unless you have supernatural powers. Shocked

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Jeet on Fri 18 Dec 2009 - 21:25

nai geee

mo ti bizin fer la priere lakoz so mom ti dir moi.
Be mone fer li ek mo le coeur puisque si bann la fer la priere la bas ek respecter sa.
Mo pas kav fer kuma ene .....
So you see i have to respect that place too. One should not behave like a savage if he is not at his home.

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Varun on Fri 18 Dec 2009 - 23:47

Now, you even lie to yourself? It's amazing how God/religion makes people go astray. Decide once and for all on your mindset and write your own destiny, Jeet.

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Sneha on Sun 20 Dec 2009 - 11:53

No one asked me how I became an atheist... Suspect

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Jeet on Sun 20 Dec 2009 - 13:13

Ok if you are telling Varun.

Well Sneha, here is your question: How did you become an atheist?

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Sneha on Sun 20 Dec 2009 - 14:59

Since I've known Varun, he has always asked me why did I believe in God and where was the proof of its existence. I've tried to answer him many times but I could never give him any evidence, which eventually proved his logic about being an atheist. My mind was tormented by this quest because when he interrogated me, he also pointed his fingers at the 20 years I spent worshipping God.

I looked for an answer everywhere I could but nothing really backed the idea that God exists. I went all over the Ramayana and all those sacred books, I asked my mom (a firm believer of God), I questioned lots of other people, but in vain. Nothing actually helped. It was then that I started feeling that perhaps I'm making a mistake in having faith in God. Yet, as a devotee, I could not accept the thought that God doesn't exist. After all, for 20 years I've been taught by every person I met that God is here, he is omnipresent.

As my search went on, the feeling that God existed started disappearing. I had stopped doing prayers by myself and I started questioning myself about God. Does it exist? I continued looking for the answer here, there, everywhere. Meanwhile, Varun gave me the reasons why he doesn't believe in God and asked me to analyze the way religious people think and behave. They say atheists are immoral and they do not have a disciplined life. But what about the religious persons who are destroying the world little by little? What about the children being taught at a young age that they would attain heaven if they attack people with bombs and commit suicide at the same time? God is supposed to protect those innocent people from being killed for nothing; where is God at those moments? When I pondered upon what Varun said, I started seeing light at the end of the tunnel.

Moreover, at home, I get all sorts of problems because of my parents' orthodox and religious nature; their son should be priviledged for everything and their daughters should be kept imprisoned. Religion is supposed to teach the truth but I can't say how many times my parents lied to me saying they don't have money to give me for my everyday life when they have huge amounts kept in the bank.

On top of all are the hindu priests... I haven't seen one who does his job without taking money from the devotees. They are supposed to represent/teach hinduism, isn't it? So, should I pay to learn "my religion"?

Finally, one day I got my answer. Varun asked me to watch a documentary entitled The Root of All Evil. This programme answered all my questions on why I should not waste my time in doing prayers and all those things I used to do. I won't talk too much about it because you have to watch it to really understand it... In the meantime, any more questions? Smile

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Shanu on Sun 20 Dec 2009 - 17:22

1 kestion...
B kan zot pou maryer, eski zot pou perform ban rituals la according to the norms of our religion??

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Jeet on Sun 20 Dec 2009 - 19:43

lloooollll shanu kya question hai!!!

Anyone of you, Sneha or Varun can answer Shanu's question.


Last edited by Jeet on Mon 21 Dec 2009 - 19:20; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Varun on Mon 21 Dec 2009 - 6:38

Shanu wrote:1 kestion...
B kan zot pou maryer, eski zot pou perform ban rituals la according to the norms of our religion??
Our religion? Whose religion? Neither do I belong to a religion nor does Sneha.

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Jeet on Mon 21 Dec 2009 - 11:10

Hehe what a slap

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Varun on Mon 21 Dec 2009 - 16:15

Jeet, why are you after Shanu? Tell me about you instead; are you a theist or an atheist and why?

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Shanu on Mon 21 Dec 2009 - 16:36

Varun, mo ti penser toi et Sneha pou fer 7 les tour difé!!

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Varun on Mon 21 Dec 2009 - 18:05

Can't people get married without the 7 rounds around the holy fire?

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Jeet on Mon 21 Dec 2009 - 19:28

Am an atheist.

Because when i was in primary school, i used to believe in god.
But stopped doing so as i went in CPE.
Since people used to say that if you study hard, then god helps you take a step forward.

Then i realised it was i that was doing the work alone since i worked at easy pace. That is i studied in school and did all my homework by myself, without anybody's help and i never took care to revise.

As CPE exams neared, i revised and passed with six A's. Meaning that the work was from me, god wasn't there.

I must also say that it was due to my father that i had revised, as he had made me sit in the kitchen in front of him and revise.
And also i really liked to study all every subject except Maths.

On thing God is not there.
Everything that one wants to achieve, depends on oneself's will power and determination.

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Varun on Mon 21 Dec 2009 - 20:21

On a personal level, I am proud of you because guys of your age are most of the time blinded by their surroundings. You're the very first atheist teenager I know.

You know, at times, I dream of an Earth with a 100% atheist population... What a paradise would that be! Very Happy

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Sneha on Mon 21 Dec 2009 - 20:56

How would that be a paradise? Please exshplain, huney... scratch

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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Varun on Mon 21 Dec 2009 - 21:12

Simple...

  • No air pollution from holy fires/candles.
  • No noise pollution from temples and mosques.
  • No begging of money under God's name.
  • More free time for other constructive things (instead of sitting and worshipping).
  • No traffic jams because of religious processions.
  • No suicide bombings and wars.
  • No belief in stupid, immoral and non-existent things (thus resulting in a more intelligent civilisation).

Varun
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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Jeet on Tue 22 Dec 2009 - 9:51

Right Varun.
One thing i don't understand is that why are there suicide bombings, how can one do so though these people are religious?
Why is it present?
Anyone who can give a quite clear or detailed information??

Jeet
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Re: The God Delusion

Post by Sponsored content Today at 5:51


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